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« Manny Ramirez suspended 50 games for positive drug test | Main | RIP Dom Dimaggio - An All-Time Red Sox Great »

May 07, 2009

Comments

da ex Boss

Seriously every team most likely had players juicing, and don't think the yanks titles from 96-2000 are clean.. Knoblauch, Pettitte, Stanton, Grimsley and Clemens. Look up Yankees players on Mitchell report .

You see the technology of hiding PEDs is always ahead of technology to detect it. When there is that much money at stake, people will do almost anything to get that extra edge. You have to think every team that won a world series title from 1990 to present day most likely had at least one person that was bending the rules with PEDs. I guess they are all tainted.. uh oh.. that includes some yankees titles (and we know for an absolute documented fact that they had PED users on their championship teams.)

Now with Manny, who knows if he was doing PEDs currently or in the past, at the moment the way everything is shaping up in the media he now needs to prove his innocence. He did not get caught with steroids, he got caught with a higher testosterone level due to taking HCG this spring while playing for LA. (Please note, I am not defending Manny, I really don't like him and am still very disturbed with him for his actions while on the Sox, but yes it looks like with the current information the media has provided to us that he most likely was doing something illegal) Was he doing them in LA? maybe, was he doing them in Boston? maybe, in Cleveland? maybe. No one really knows.

And for the yankees fans that want to try to say the sox's titles in 04 and 07 are tainted go ahead, if you want to think that, on no real evidence, just assumptions, go ahead you have all the right in the world to do so. Although if we are going on no real evidence and assumptions shouldn't St Louis and CO be guilty of playing PED abusers too ? Whatever. keep saying what you want I will just chuckle with your weak logic and arguments.

Anthony

I don't think his point is that the Yankees or any other team for that matter won a world series being clean while the sox were the only team that was juicing. The point is that the sox have a reputation as america's most beloved baseball team and in particular the 04 season was a cinderella story for the organization. When looking back though from a historical perspective, our children will have a more objective viewpoint based on statistics rather than feeling. Just look at the numbers these teams put up and what happened to many of the players after testing began - absurd. I feel like New York fans will openly admit when they probably know a player has been on the juice whereas Boston fans will animately deny it as if it were offensive. That's the difference between the two teams, new yorkers just want results - so what if giambi or arod was juicing? as long as they put up numbers... accuse ortiz of juicing and you'll get into a never ending argument!

Dogzilla

Well, there's a simple answer. Win another series. I know it sometimes feels like no matter what, the Sox will always have to prove themselves, but if they win yet another World Series this year, it will become much more difficult for people to challenge the previous two.

But I don't understand - did the character of testing change dramatically last year? Manny (as well as, presumably, the rest of the 2004 and 2007 teams) underwent multiple drug tests previous to this one and nothing was ever found. I'll admit that I don't know much about the drug testing, but if he just failed one now after years of not failing one, why does that call into question his past achievements, not to mention his teammates'? It almost seems like giving someone 15 polygraph tests over and over during the course of 5 years and when they do finally fail one, you claim they were lying all along.

Ryan

I still love Bill :\.

Derek Hixon

@ Dogzilla - That's a great point, and honestly it shouldn't have taken this recent Manny Debacle for people to place any team in poor light. But in his article he calls out guys like Bill Mueller (one of my all-time favorites) who was old to begin with, and had awful knees, that's why he stopped, which isn't steroid related @ all

Baseball fan

It's not just Yankee fans that are putting down the Sox now - they weren't voted the most obnoxious fans in MLB after 2004 for nothing. It's the "holier than thou" attitude a lot of them have and their being so smug. AROD is being crucified and the Sox were right there in front row for that. How does it feel to be on the other side now?

Derek Hixon

@ Baseball fan - Just in case you didn't know, Manny Ramirez is on the LA Dodgers, has been since 08/01/08, that's almost 10 months now, or basically a year.

People don't like the Red Sox or their fans anymore because we're winning, it's that simple. The owners of other ball clubs love Red Sox fans I'll tell you that, because we help sell out ball parks that normally don't sell so well (i.e. - Baltimore, Tampa Bay, Cleveland, etc.)

It feels no different now then it did after 2004, people love to hate, so whatever. I admit that there are some annoying Red Sox fans, but if there's enough of an opposing team to start an audible chant in your home park it's not their fault is it? Is it a crime to be a fan?

I'm a baseball fan as well, and I just don't get how 2007 is lumped in with 2004? That was only 2 seasons ago, was there no testing then? Has it changed that dramatically? And weren't the Red Sox only 1 game from being back in the World Series last year? Hmmmmmm.....

The Sox have been winning this decade because of three reasons:

1) We're the smartest club in baseball. The SABR heads we have hired (see: Bill James) coupled together with our worldwide scouting is far above other clubs, and yes we have more resources, but we use them damn well.

2) We have more money because it's a big market, long tradition, and wide fan base. But we use the money smart unlike other clubs (See: Yankees)

3) Our minor league system is proving to be one of the best in baseball and or foreign outreach is as well.

Yeah 2004 didn't have a lot of homegrown players like 2007, but the team was still built from a statistical SABR angle, which a lot of clubs still didn't quite understand at that time.

Hell, there's probably been a ton of Red Sox who've used steroids in the past 10 years, but damn, that's the same way for EVERY team. And they're not the reason why the Sox have been winning, the field was even, like you said, this is a baseball issue.

Dubb Whitman Boy

If the Sox are tainted, they are all tainted. Dom D should be in the HoF due to missing 3 years of his prime. You make due for those that deserve it. The steroid era needs to be accounted for in a similar, albeit negative, way. They were all doing it!! It's the culture. Been to your local gym lately? Hang with any elite athletes in your town lately? It's the urge to get an edge. Simple as that. Sox won the WS vs their Peers. Both time. Simple as that.

Derek Hixon

FYI -- Bill Simmons semi-apologized for this post on his 05/11/09 podcast. I think I was one of those people from "back home" he mentioned I believe, either way, I still love Bill to death, just hated that column, twas' weak.

And you should subscribe to his podcast if you don't already, it's pretty damn hilarious.

More Simmons here: http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/simmons/index

dave

How bout the hall of fame? Is simmons ruining these guys chances at the hall by un-intentionally acusing them of steroids? Would manny be a hall of famer without seroids? Yes. Should he be banned from the hall because he got caught? Yes. If pete rose is banned then manny should be too. All though is manny does get in, make sure all of you boston fans drive up ther to see the induction ceremony, i mean he is a big reason why the sox won 2 world series this decade. And the induction ceremony's are like nothing you have ever seen before. I was up there for Mike Schmidt in '95 and the it was awesome to see him thanking the fans they he did. the induction ceremony's are even in this book "the 100 sporting events you must see live" as number 22 on the list out of the entire world!! So even if manny doesn't get in, due your selves a favor and go one of the ceremony's before.

oh and i found the web site to the book if anyone wants to check it out, www.100sportingevents.com

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